Dapper Boi - Confidence Is the Real Product

Ramon Vela (00:02.092)
Hey everyone, this is the story of a brand and thank you for, let me do that again. One, two, three.

Hey everyone, this is Ramon Vela and this is a story of a brand. Like always, we have an amazing founder and brand that we're going to feature on today's show, but before we do, pause, one, two, three. Now, without further ado, let's get to the main event. I have with me just an amazing founder and brand that I can't wait to dive into. The website, I just have to say, I'm gonna give it to you in a second, but once you go on there,

You can't help but smile. just brought it up a second ago and it just brings a smile to my face and you've got to feel good. If you're just feeling low today, go to the website and I guarantee you're going to smile. I won't tease you too much longer. We'll give the website on a second, but let me introduce you to Vicky Pasha, who is the co-founder and CEO of Dapper Boy. Welcome to the show.

Vicky Pasche (01:08.707)
Hey Ramon, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited for this chat.

Ramon Vela (01:13.186)
Yeah, me too. And I appreciate you making time because I know you're busy, you're running a company and all, but I really appreciate it. And I think consumers really appreciate it when they get to know the founders and the people behind the brands that they see on retail shelves, online, et cetera. And I really feel like consumers want to know more about who's behind the scenes and they want to know what you think and what your mission is and what your journey is.

how you want people to see your brand and also just like, you know, in terms of, you know, the ups and the downs of it. Cause I always feel like if consumers knew a little bit about all the behind the scenes things that you do and how much you care, you give consumers a little bit of a permission to care as well. And so I know we're going to get into some really great stuff. So before we do,

I always like to start off my interviews or I should say before we get into all of that, I like to start off with a question of gratitude. For those of you who have first time listeners, I like to ask the gratitude question for several reasons. One is that I'm a big believer in gratitude. I just think that if you're feeling stressed out and anxious and so forth, gratitude is a great way to just sort of step back, put things in context.

take you out of the moment for a moment if you're having a stressful day and just remind you of what's really important in your life. And it's just an amazing tool. Whether you meditate, which I do, or you can journal or pray or whatever it is that you do, gratitude is just really a powerful tool. The other reason is kind of a little bit to the point I made a little earlier is that I want you

to realize that there are real people behind these brands that we feature. It's so easy to see brands on a shelf and just think, you know, it's just a faithless corporation or whatnot. No, but there's real people behind these companies that care deeply about what they're doing and understanding what, you know, who I'm interviewing, what they're grateful for is just a great way to kind of get to know the brand, get to know the people behind the brand. And so with all of that said, Vicki, if you don't mind.

Ramon Vela (03:34.616)
Can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision, or your potential?

Vicky Pasche (03:43.973)
Yeah, absolutely. I love it all. First of all, I'm a huge gratitude person. I write in a journal every morning and night. And so it is so helpful, especially in times of stress. But I want to call out one story, and this is a crazy story actually recently that happened with one of our advisors for Dapperboy. And I had an opportunity to go to Hawaii and pitch to a Hawaii Angels group.

Ramon Vela (03:55.694)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (04:00.653)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (04:13.119)
And it was a huge opportunity. know, we've been fundraising for a long time now. Everyone knows it's a little crazy. It can be a wild ride. And what happened was I was prepping for it and getting ready for it. And this woman, Catherine, who's become a dear friend and one of our advisors of the brand, her and her wife are also going on the trip. And we were going to also make, you know, have a great time together, almost like, you know, it'd be my wife and me and her and her wife.

And so we were gonna make a trip of it. was a week long adventure and then ending with the big pitch. So the week before our nanny quits. And so my wife, Sharice, can't go anymore. So it's just me going. And the day before the trip, I get so sick. mean, fever, chills, everything. And so I can't make it. And it was a huge opportunity to get money for our business.

Ramon Vela (04:49.454)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (05:10.403)
And I was freaking out and I'm trying to go no matter what and sick and everything like that too. Well, Catherine stepped up to the plate. says, I will do it for you. She asked the group if she could pitch in my place. She learned our company inside and out. I prepped her with our pitch deck. She asked all the right questions. She memorized all week long. She could have been enjoying Hawaii. And instead she dove headfirst into Dapper Boy. She did a great job. You know, I'm just.

Ramon Vela (05:31.31)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (05:38.297)
forever grateful for her. We got a couple of great investors out of that actually. And it's just incredible how in such a short amount of time, you know, she believed in me so much. She believes in our brand so much that she took that time to really understand every aspect of our brand and killed it. So I want to tell that story to the world because she deserves that. And yeah, I'm forever grateful for her for that.

Ramon Vela (06:03.214)
Wow. That is amazing because that is really, I mean, not only, uh, is she advising you and whatever for agreement you might've had with her or have with her, but she's really taking her time out of her vacation with her family. Uh, like do this and like that's extra, you know, cause, cause now she has to deal with her wife and her family and, um, and they have to understand. So, you know,

Vicky Pasche (06:20.729)
Right.

Vicky Pasche (06:32.067)
Right.

Ramon Vela (06:32.729)
It's one thing kind of doing it on her own if she just is in the office, but like having to tell your wife, your spouse, your partner that, Ooh, have to, you know, that vacation we've been waiting for. have, I have to work. have to do this. Yeah. but so that really, like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just, I just think, I just think that that is like, that's amazing what she did. Right. That's amazing. how she, how she stepped in for you and that really, wow. I mean, if that doesn't.

Vicky Pasche (06:42.149)
A lot too, yeah.

Vicky Pasche (06:51.074)
No, right?

Yeah.

Ramon Vela (07:02.476)
If that doesn't display or meet the question that I gave about the gratitude thing, someone who believed in you, your vision or your potential, that, I mean, that's it. Like that is, that is definitely it. So, And, and what was her name, her full name? Or do you mind?

Vicky Pasche (07:12.141)
Absolutely, absolutely. Catherine, yeah, sure, Catherine Gray. Yeah, all the props to her and her wife even, she was listening to her pitch over and over. Like she ended up contributing, it was just so, it's wild, know, and a crazy story. But I will say, you know, I felt so much guilt every day that she was having to do that, you know, but she never made me feel that way. She was like, we got.

Ramon Vela (07:19.214)
All right, okay. End.

Ramon Vela (07:28.142)
Thank

Vicky Pasche (07:39.503)
this, you don't worry, get better. you know, afterwards she was so confident and happy in the job that she did, which made me so happy. again, forever grateful. She's incredible.

Ramon Vela (07:51.102)
And it's a, well, my follow-up question to all of these gratitude stories is have you closed the loop? Have you talked to her about, or like mentioned this, but it sounds like you have. It sounds like she knows how grateful and happy you are about the whole thing. So.

Vicky Pasche (08:06.629)
Yeah, absolutely. I've been wanting to do it in a public way though. So I'm excited to actually share this podcast with her because she deserves that.

Ramon Vela (08:13.87)
All right, well, we're gonna tag her, as she knows when we do it on LinkedIn or one of the platforms. So thank you for sharing that, because that's a really good, I love this example, because it encompasses so much in just that example about someone believing in you, someone stepping up for you.

an advisor going the extra mile for you because she probably didn't really didn't have to do that. But I mean, it's just encompasses so much. So that's a great example. We all, I'm sure as founders, we all wish we have someone like Catherine in our stables to help us. So thank you for that. So that's a good segue into understand a little bit more about the company. So.

Vicky Pasche (08:54.873)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (09:03.978)
I started off the interview by saying, know, teasing people about your website. So let me just give it out really quick. I'm going to ask Vicki to give us a little bit of an overview, but before I do that, let me just tell you, go to dapperboy.com and that's D-A-P-P-E-R-B-O-I-boy.com dapperboy.com. And I guarantee you.

today, if you are feeling sad or if you want to just go and check out a really cool website and a cool brand, go to dapperboy.com. Either way, you're going to end up smiling the moment that you open the webpage because right away, boom, people are dancing, smiling, looking really happy. And I have to say that every time I was looking at it when I brought it up this morning, I just had to smile. So anyhow, I just wanted to say that. Vicky.

Vicky Pasche (09:53.199)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (09:55.032)
Give us a little bit of a high level overview. We're gonna get into details and so forth. So if you wanna stay high level, that would be fantastic.

Vicky Pasche (10:02.179)
Yeah, definitely. So Dapper Boy is an all gender, size inclusive clothing brand. And our whole mission is to inspire people to feel comfortable and confident being their authentic selves through clothing. That's the real high level way. There's a big story behind it, but yeah. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (10:17.038)
that's pretty good. That's really high level. No, I love it. And there's so many things that I want to talk to you about, that the challenges to what you just said, like the sizing challenges and, cause a lot of, I really want to get into some of that because consumers don't know how difficult it is for sizing because the industry has certain sizing.

that they follow, manufacturers follow these type of sizings. It's easy, know, they're ready and open to do the normal standard sizings or whatever that is, know, standard. But when you offer various sizes or sizes that others don't, it becomes a really big challenge from a manufacturing standpoint. And I really feel like those are the kinds of things that consumers need to know. All these little things that you do,

Vicky Pasche (11:08.773)
for sure.

Ramon Vela (11:15.918)
to offer the clothing and the products that your customers want and look for and can't find anywhere else, but it's because you are going the extra mile. So we'll get into that because even those little things of manufacturing challenges that you have to go through with these things I think are a big deal. So let's step back and let's talk a little bit about how this all started and was there some...

Vicky Pasche (11:32.147)
yeah.

Ramon Vela (11:42.112)
I don't know, ideas, a milestone, some issues, some problem. What was it that was the impetus for the starting the brand?

Vicky Pasche (11:51.109)
Yeah, for sure. So we started the brand back in 2015. So we're 10 years old coming up here in the next couple of months. And it really started with my own personal journey, know, coming out actually, chopping my hair, you know, really embracing who I am, you know, on the inside to the outside. And one of the first steps for me in really being who I truly am is shopping in the men's department.

And the men's department, once I tried on those clothes, I remember feeling like a euphoria. Like this is exactly what I've been looking for. I felt this new confidence. But I realized along the way, really those clothes never fit my body. But I never really questioned it when wearing them. I thought, well, it's men's clothing. This is just how it has to be. I remember wearing my button-up shirts down to my chest pretty much and leaving it open like it was a stout, because I couldn't get around my booty.

Those clothes are not made for curves, men's clothes. And so it was just an interesting, once I started questioning that, after years of wearing it, then I was like, it's just not good enough. I wanna make it for me. And so really that was how Dapperboy started. So here's the real story. This is behind the scenes, behind the scenes that a lot of people don't necessarily know. I was working in casinos. I was the head of a marketing department.

Ramon Vela (13:05.272)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (13:18.551)
at a casino here in San Diego. And I wore suits every day. And again, this is when I had my hair chopped. I was this new confident self shopping in the men's department and I was wearing men's suits, but I looked like a box, you know, like those clothes never fit me. So the Dapper Boys initial concept was just suits, you know, more like for masculine presenting folks. That was the initial concept. Even our logo had a bow tie in it for the longest time.

Ramon Vela (13:33.346)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (13:38.477)
Hmm.

Vicky Pasche (13:45.581)
In our wedding, we had dapper boy bow ties, actually. But what was happening at that time when we decided let's go ahead and launch this brand on Kickstarter was that there were other, you know, similar ideas launching at the same exact time, know, lesbian owners with the same idea. And I said, you know what, let's scrap that. I'm not wanting to compete. Plus, I actually care more about everyday wear more than suits. Like I was caring about how I looked going out in the evenings, you know, like going out into the scene and.

Ramon Vela (14:01.422)
You

Ramon Vela (14:14.989)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (14:15.193)
You know, so we went back to jeans, which is the very first product in the men's department that I tried on. I remember it was Old Navy specifically, but I used to have to wear two sizes too big to get around my booty. Like it all comes down to my butt here, we're talking. But yeah, so we started with jeans, my wife and I, and what we did was we took notes in our favorite men's jeans and favorite women's jeans. And there's so many differences when it came to fit, when it came to fabric and function.

Ramon Vela (14:27.022)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (14:44.485)
To this day, women's genes still don't have deep pockets. They're not functional whatsoever. You can go like maybe knuckles deep, you know? And that's not even, you know? And so it's crazy that's revolutionary today. And then when we realized when we launched on Kickstarter, it's more than just me. There were so many people with the same problem as me from all walks of life. It wasn't just masculine presenting women. It's trans folks.

Ramon Vela (14:52.974)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (15:10.805)
It's men with curves, whether they're plus size or athletic, same for women that are plus size or athletic, that are just looking for a great fit. And so really we started questioning, you really think about this. You walk into a department store and you have two options. It's the men's section and the women's section and they're embedded with these societal rules and norms based on your gender. Well, we're looking to break that, you know, and our goal here is to be the next Levi's of all gender fashion.

I speak that into existence every day. I manifest that. I say it every day. And that's what we will be. And so it's been such a crazy journey. We started with jeans. We've launched so many more different styles of jeans, even button-up shirts for us. I used to wear button-ups all the time. And again, there's a thing called chest gap. So we added hidden snaps behind our button placket to prevent chest gap and things like that.

We're always thinking through function with every product. And also I'm a plus size person. So I used to shop in the plus size men's section. So imagine that it's also like not really cool or trendy, but I don't fit there either. I'm the smallest size and the, you know, shirts are down to my knees and they're still literally, and I try this test all the time, no place for me to shop. And so Dapperboy has been, you know, obviously I'm biased here, but I can't find a fit like my own brand. is completely.

completely changed who I am. It's completely changed my confidence. Like I really feel like I've stepped into this role now as a leader with this new confidence because of this brand. We've done that for so many other people too.

Ramon Vela (16:45.326)
Wow. And that's actually was my going to be my next question was around the feedback that you're getting because you can't be the only one having this experience, right? There has to be other people feeling this way, not finding the right clothing or having to choose alternatives that aren't exactly the best fit because, you know, they're clothes, but maybe not, you know, not exactly what they want.

Vicky Pasche (17:12.175)
Right.

Ramon Vela (17:12.79)
And so what was the feedback like? maybe even before you started, as you started talking to people about this, and then of course, as you started launching, what was the feedback that you were getting from people?

Vicky Pasche (17:24.129)
Yeah, that's the feedback is what allowed us to keep going. It gave us the courage to keep going because I remember, you know, getting our first sample of jeans. We had two sizes only and I was trying all of my friends that would fit those size, anybody who would wear the jeans, try these on, you know, please. You know, we had six months. It took us to get the first sample of our first style of gene, which is a very long time. Typically samples can take two to three weeks now that I know what I know. So

Ramon Vela (17:52.814)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (17:53.809)
And actually, I should backtrack further because we didn't have a fashion background whatsoever. And I just had a passion for solving this problem really for myself initially and then for so many people. finding manufacturers is not a simple Google search. I was like searching on Google and like finding some and like people would just hang up on me and be like, you have no idea what you're talking about. Like, we're not really interested in this project until one manufacturer was like, huh.

Ramon Vela (18:09.923)
Hmm.

Vicky Pasche (18:21.401)
I actually think you're really onto something. I'd like to pair you up with my pattern maker. And that's when actually things really started for us and having those conversations, starting to understand the technical side of designing products, clothing. yeah, so six months of samples, we had the samples, now we're off and we're having friends try them on. And the euphoria I saw that they had the same as me. I knew that we were really onto something. And then when we really like that first day one of launching on Kickstarter.

we heard from so many people all over the world about how they had the same problem as me. And again, as soon as you hear that, it's that validation, just keep going. We were so excited, we were on it, we were not shy anymore because it was again, more than me. And then from there, I mean, we get messages still daily from people how much we're changing their lives, their confidence, how they never thought they could get the job.

that they got because of the confidence they walked into their interview in their dapper boy clothes. So this is more than clothing, you know, it's really confidence and confidence I really believe can move mountains.

Ramon Vela (19:31.374)
And you know, feels, I mean, I don't know what it was like 10 years ago in terms of, it sounds like based on what you just said, like there was not very many options. But when people tell me these things, it always feels like, not you, but I'm just thinking overall from an industry perspective, like there should have been more options, right? Like this is a market that's underserved and it's...

Vicky Pasche (19:59.022)
Right?

Ramon Vela (19:59.638)
You know, even plus size, right? Just this, just that area alone is, is well underserved. And I know that it was underserved 10 years ago because I've had other brands come on the show that focus on plus sizes. And it's always just like blown my mind that these markets were just never, have never been served. and that someone like you had to come along and do it when these corporations had been around forever and knew.

Vicky Pasche (20:18.97)
Right.

Ramon Vela (20:27.234)
Definitely, I mean, they have to know what the, you know, what various demographics challenges might have. Like, you know, they might say, there was this market here plus size, but, you know, maybe it's too costly to do plus sizes. I don't know. But it just feels, it just blows my mind that here was a market that was available, that was ripe for innovation and just no one ever did anything about it.

Vicky Pasche (20:56.857)
Right, I just don't think people thought to question that. know, again, like me trying on the men's, I thought this is just how it is. This is how men's clothing fits. And this is how, but it wasn't until we realized, you know, we believe style, you know, it should be based on body type and style preference, you know, not on gender. And that's where like minds open up and you're like, yeah, that just makes all kinds of sense, you know? And so, yeah, it's been a wild journey for sure.

Ramon Vela (21:22.774)
And, and, and so after the initial Kickstarter, you know, there's, and, and it may be different for you, but I've, when I've talked to other founders, there's this euphoria that you get after the Kickstarter and it kind of propels everything going forward. And then at some point though, like, you know, things start to flatline, not flatline, but things start to kind of like stabilize. And then, then you have to look for other ways to, bring up the,

Vicky Pasche (21:27.033)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (21:52.28)
brand awareness, to bring attention, to find new customers and all of that. But there's always something I find, some milestone where beyond the Kickstarter, it's almost like the Kickstarter is the first validation point, but then you have other validation points, other milestones. What was the other milestone that you guys reached that, was it a retail, was it?

Vicky Pasche (22:13.221)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (22:19.948)
you know, sales online, was it someplace that just showed you like, wow, okay, Kickstarter, aside from the Kickstarter, this is really like a great sign that the businesses that were onto something.

Vicky Pasche (22:32.453)
Totally. Well, first I would also like to say that before we started our Kickstarter campaign, my wife and I went like all in. She was still working full time. I was working consulting for casinos now, so I was able to work from home and do Dapper Boy. But we moved out of our four bedroom townhouse to this 630 square foot shack, like tiny, tiny little apartment to make this dream a reality.

Ramon Vela (22:52.93)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (22:58.533)
And so once we hit that Kickstarter goal, know, our goal was 18,000 for our first production. Again, not thinking further than the production cost, you know, like not knowing what we did so much more we learned after that. But yeah, we raised 26,000. We were like, yeah, you know, we're doing this thing. But then we sold out of the jeans and then it was a whole year that went by with what are we going to do now? You know, like we.

Ramon Vela (23:07.853)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (23:26.861)
maybe get a couple hundred bucks, maybe we had a couple strands of jeans left, it was rough. And then I was working any kind of part-time job. I was doing Postmates and part-time gigs here and there while Sharice was running a full-time job and I'm still running Dapperboy and we're trying to figure it out. One year later after the Kickstarter campaign, we're like, well, what do we do? We really don't wanna do another Kickstarter campaign. Do we throw in the towel now?

How do we get this money to move on? Capital is crucial. And so we thought of an idea and it was our way of bootstrapping because we were going to banks. We were going to everywhere saying, Hey, you know, we raised 26,000 on Kickstarter, but they were like, yeah, that's not enough. You know, it's not enough sales. I'm sorry. We can't give you a loan, like anything like that. So we were back to the drawing board. And so what we did was we kind of took that same model to our own website. launched a Shopify store and.

What we did was we went to our next product. So that was the button up shirt. So on Kickstarter, we just had one style, one pair of jeans. And then a year later is when we launched the button up shirt with the hidden snaps. And what we did was, is we made some really humorous videos, literally with our friends wearing the shirts, you know, really showing the problem. Like, do you have this problem showing the big gap in the shirt and like just really making fun like.

Ramon Vela (24:48.568)
Thank you.

Vicky Pasche (24:53.861)
very relatable skits in our product. And people thought we were just crazy and they loved it and they started following the journey. And then we launched this one button-up and it was one color. And imagine again, one year of like no sales to we launched this button-up shirt and we do $30,000 in three weeks. know, like to us, we were like, oh my goodness, like this is how we do it.

Ramon Vela (25:16.547)
Wow.

Vicky Pasche (25:21.721)
This is how we get crafty and bootstrap this brand. We would launch products, say, hey, we only can do 300, because we were just looking after getting like stock fabric from manufacturers, silly meaning like the scraps of whatever they had left, saying, hey, let's make a sample of this, have our friends wear it and say, hey, everybody, get in at this special price. It was a discounted price at the start of the life of the product instead of at the end to create that sense of urgency.

Ramon Vela (25:34.594)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (25:49.442)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (25:49.733)
And then it would be for like a three week timeframe and be like, we only have three weeks to get this. And people were just going nuts. And then we would be launching a product once a month. And then they would just, they would wait for it. We trained our customers to be like, okay, we have a very limited amount. We only have this one color and we're going to sell out. So every time we were just building up and selling out to like, again, having that Kickstarter campaign to the next year, doing 240,000 in sales to the next year doing over 500, you know,

So the next year doing over a million and we continued to do that. And that's how we launched our full line. It was, know, bathing suits even. Swimsuit, we were, you know, solving problems for when it came to fit and function. You know, even bomber jackets, simple t-shirts because the fit we were, you know, solving. And also we were doing it in this way that was so comical, relatable, and people felt like, you we don't have a political agenda. Like they just want it to be our friend.

Ramon Vela (26:39.618)
Thank

Vicky Pasche (26:45.509)
You know, and they saw the confidence that we had in our clothes and they wanted that too. So we've made a whole lot of friends out of our customer base to the point where our repeat customer rate is 51 % in a world where, know, in e-comm fashion specifically, you strive for 28. So these people, VIPs are shopping, you know, on average nine times a year with us because they're waiting for every drop that we'd have.

Ramon Vela (26:45.518)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (27:11.98)
And this, would you just describe, that still going on today?

Vicky Pasche (27:15.205)
Well, no, and then there's definitely some hurdles we hit with that model that was never meant to be forever, especially during COVID. Yeah, COVID almost killed us with that model because imagine not having products, you know, and you're just running limited releases and now there's production delays and you can't ethically launch new products. So we went through some crazy times. We even sold our house, you know, to keep Dapperboy afloat during that time. was wild times.

Ramon Vela (27:22.476)
Yeah, yeah, that's right, too.

Ramon Vela (27:41.368)
Wow. Yeah, mean, believe me, in the interviews that I've done with different founders, that is, I mean, I've heard that story before and it's a shame, but you know, it's like, and I'm glad you brought that up because it's one of those things where I think consumers should know, you know, all the blood, sweat and tears that you put into this and how important it is to you and how much care you put into the products and that. And so it's not an easy thing.

Vicky Pasche (27:51.896)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (28:11.212)
Believe me, I know firsthand too. I know what it is to have to sell your house. There was a question I had about, in terms of that model, was it people paying upfront for it or, okay. And that actually makes it, mean, that is a great idea. You're right. It's not something that is doable forever.

Vicky Pasche (28:11.29)
Right.

Vicky Pasche (28:28.387)
Yes. Yeah, it was a pre-order.

Ramon Vela (28:39.362)
But it's actually really a cool idea in the sense that you get some money upfront. So now you have some capital to pay for the manufacturing run. that's great. Who thought of that?

Vicky Pasche (28:49.241)
The manufacturer. Yep. Right. But the problem, you know, I think we were just brainstorming together, my wife and I, and that was like that kind of Kickstarter model of like, okay, get in on this and then we'll send you this. You know, it wasn't ideal because people had to wait six to 12 weeks. And then, you know, when the delays happen, it was even longer, but they were willing to do it because they couldn't find a fit like that, you know, but we were at one point launching

Ramon Vela (28:58.572)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Vicky Pasche (29:16.953)
you know, five colors at one time in a button up shirt. But we were always launching, you know, we, were able to test now the last 10 years of doing these pre-orders, the products people liked and didn't like, you know, in the beginning too, we would launch a product and if it didn't make the minimum we needed, then we wouldn't launch it. We refund people and be like, yeah, that didn't work. You know, so we have a ton of data now too. was, it was the smart way for us to do that, to test our products and build a complete everyday line.

Ramon Vela (29:46.274)
Wow. And then of course, I'm assuming through the videos and other things like that, you were capturing emails and building a list and of course you build a list through this model that you were just describing. And then from there, you can offer additional deals and so forth. Or now you have a list that you can go after and sell things to. In terms of...

in terms of the manufacturing component, did want to just mention real quick is that, correct me if I'm wrong, I was alluding to this earlier, but when you do, when you stray from the regular, and I think this may be the difficulty you had in finding a manufacturer, when you stray away from the industry, know, and I'm doing that in quotes, industry standard sizes or whatever that means,

It's harder because manufacturers already kind of built to do it a certain way. They don't want to try different sizes and they don't want to do in between sizes and they don't want to do all sorts of other stuff. And there's all additional costs with fabrics and everything else and so forth. This is a real thing, right? Like when you do plus sizes and when you add things to different shirts or pants or whatever.

Vicky Pasche (30:55.952)
yeah.

Ramon Vela (31:03.914)
If you're going outside of what the industry or the manufacturing industry is used to, it costs additional, right?

Vicky Pasche (31:12.537)
Yeah, yeah, it does. And what's interesting too is...

the sizing and how we determined what that was and like the range that we have. It's a very wide range. like if you're used to our sizes line up with men's bottom sizes and if we felt like that was easier, women's sizing is a lot more vanity, know, like size zero and that doesn't really make sense to me, you know? And so with men's sizing, so we have a size range from 26 to 52 in bottoms, which is kind of unheard of to have all in one.

place in one store. Typically, you're looking at a plus size store for anything above that. But I felt like personally, I didn't like being ostracized or like separated, you know, it just made me feel like some kind of guilt about myself, you know, and I'm all about body positivity, no matter where you are, you know, I want to feel confident, whatever size I am. And so it was interesting that when we started the sizing process, Sharice, who's much smaller than me, was the original fit model.

because that's how the manufacturer, the pattern-maker is used to sizing a certain size and then grading sizes up or down based on that model. Well, after quite a few exercises, I became the fit model. And that's how we were able to grade the sizes up past me and below me. And it ended up working out, which is kind of crazy. So people were not used to, these manufacturers were not used to someone like me.

Ramon Vela (32:38.158)
Hmm.

Vicky Pasche (32:44.311)
being the standard fit, you know? And so it's just wild that it ended up working out. It's not like, again, like I learned these words like grading and things like that along this way, but you know, when you're grading, you're going up or down a size based on the middle fit. Well, it doesn't mean like the sleeves are gonna continue growing. Like there's grading rules that come into play. like, yes, I'm a, you know.

Ramon Vela (32:54.434)
Hehehe.

Vicky Pasche (33:11.331)
was a two XL in the top, but my arm sleeves would be like the length of a typical XL or whatever that is. So there's rules that apply, but it's crazy that it ended up working out in both directions from me being the fit model.

Ramon Vela (33:23.214)
That's interesting. I've never heard that before. Or that's a story like that before. For everyone out there, if you want to take a look at what we're talking about, you can go to dapperboy.com. Dapperboy.com. Boy is spelled B-O-I. So dapperboy.com is the website that you can take a look at what we've been talking about. So.

Like you just mentioned a second ago, there's a tremendous amount of sacrifice, that you have to go through when starting a business. sometimes it's just your time. Sometimes it's financial. Sometimes it's things like, you know, your home. you know, I had one, one founder who had a men's personal care line who told me that he built his house with his hands, with his

father-in-law and then they end up having to sell this. So it wasn't just, mean a house is hard, but when you build a house too, there's a certain amount of emotional connection to it as well. But these are the things that you sacrifice and I don't know, as I mentioned to you before, I feel like these are the type of things that consumers should know about because...

Vicky Pasche (34:26.511)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (34:44.458)
I always, really do genuinely feel that if people, consumers, listeners know how much you care about something, you give them permission to want to care. and, to feel more about a brand, you know I mean? To feel like they want to, they want to support you in somehow. Obviously you have to have a great product or a product that does what it's supposed to do and all of that. But on top of all that, you know, we are.

We are presented with just so much noise. We're presented with so much commercial stuff hitting us all the time. know, large conglomerates with a lot of money, really just, you know, trying to mimic smaller brands and try to be creative. I mean, there's all sorts of things hitting us. And I don't know. I like, in this show, I always want to, the reason why I highlight a lot of small, medium sized brands and some large, but mostly medium, small and medium size, because I want people to know that there's a lot of

really innovative, cool brands that are doing great things. and there's a lot of heart behind them. You know, there may not be a ton of million dollars, know, multi-million dollars for ad campaigns, but there's a lot of heart behind some of these brands and they should know about it. And I'm glad you brought that up. and so my next question is, is, is around kind of encompassing all these different challenges that you faced. If you are.

Vicky Pasche (35:55.642)
Right.

Ramon Vela (36:12.458)
speaking to someone now who is just starting out, whether it's a clothing brand or maybe something else, what would you tell them? Like what insights or lessons have you learned that maybe you can share with someone who is passionate and has lots of heart, you know, but may not know exactly what they're getting into.

Vicky Pasche (36:30.841)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (36:35.695)
Yeah, I think, you know, it's also managing expectation of like, this could be a really long road, you know, and to really stand in your own power and be, you know, with your vision in mind. Well, let me, let me backtrack a little bit. Cause I think where I'm going here is with fundraising in particular, you know, I didn't come from money. And so I remember when approaching investors, it was like a very scary thing, you know, intimidating. And sometimes I would just, you know,

appease them, go along with what they're saying, because I thought maybe they knew more than me. And it wasn't until I started just really becoming confident, getting to know investors on a real authentic level was key to understanding that some of them are really in it for the same reason as me. They're also fundraising as well, you know, some of these funds and that we have the same kind of mission, the ones that are aligned anyway. And so it's just standing in your power with your vision being so strong in that and

you know, kind of getting out of your own way sometimes. That's a huge one. You know, like getting over yourself that this isn't about you. You know, what are you doing? You know, a huge exercise that we did in the most stressful of times when we're talking about selling our home and we're like, how do we keep the lights on? Should we keep doing this? You know, some people when they're telling you, maybe you should go after plan B or Z and you're just like, no, you know, we're planning all the way kind of people.

Ramon Vela (37:59.822)
Hmm.

you

Vicky Pasche (38:04.965)
And we had this game changing meeting and it was our goal planning meeting. Again, in these scary times we're doing this and we're saying, okay, where could Dapperboy be in six months? In one year, in five years, in 10 years, you we're the next Levi's of all gender fashion. But the big question, the gut punch question was where would the world be without Dapperboy in 10 years? And I remember there were tears at that question. That's where.

the strength really came in. We remembered more than us getting out of our own way, all those customer stories, the confidence, you know, it was, it was, we could not, we could not give up and throw in the towel because of their stories. It wasn't about us. And somehow you're able to find that inner strength to keep going, you know, and I also recommend, you don't have to know everything, you know? And so like, I felt like I kind of kicked myself to this day is like,

At the same time, I learned every aspect of the business, which is great, but I also felt like I had to prove myself and do everything before qualifying for any kind of conversation with an investor. And that's just not true. I could have been connecting early and often in this journey, finding mentors, which was huge for me, mentors and advisors along the way that helped me understand. Because I feel like there's also, if you're coming into it as a new founder and you don't know anything about fundraising or what it takes,

there's a real lack of education out there. didn't know what investors really were that there's different kinds. There's angel investors, there's venture capital, there's debt capital, you know, like where we're really going and what kind of investor do I really need? And what am I looking for? You know, like this is the education we really need, you know, thinking about your vision, like write that down. What's the big picture things and then taking those little steps, how are you going to get to that big vision? You know, these are all, there's so many lessons learned here, but

just knowing it's a long road, connect early and often and be strong in your conviction, your vision. Obviously be open to feedback too, but don't let other people dictate how your future is going to be.

Ramon Vela (40:13.226)
Hmm. You know, and I think that, you know, I think that that also segues into what the ethos is of the brand, I guess. Because the one word that I keep hearing from you and I kind of heard it right now, too, maybe in a different way, but that I keep hearing from you is confidence.

Vicky Pasche (40:38.755)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (40:39.47)
And you said that in the very beginning and right now it's related to what you just said about standing in your vision and being strong. And I feel like those words and those meanings are the ethos of the brand. I right or can you just...

Vicky Pasche (41:00.625)
Absolutely. Absolutely. It's all about confidence because again, once you have that, it's just because I have personally experienced it from Dapperboy. You know, it was this is not an easy road and there's so many more milestones and hurdles we're going to hit. But man, I have a real thick skin now. I've made so many mistakes. I've learned so many lessons and so many more lessons to learn. You know, but with that, I'm truly learning and get a grasp on things.

And that has built my confidence. So like every day I'm having a new layer of thick skin that is building my confidence where I'm walking into these meetings, I'm walking onto stages and I'm telling my vulnerable story here. And I'm so confident in that. I'm so proud of this story. I'm so proud of the story someday. know, I can't wait to write this book because it's crazy, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I really wouldn't. And then, know what? I have.

Ramon Vela (41:53.09)
Thank

Vicky Pasche (41:59.141)
My wife and I have twin seven-year-old girls and they're watching us and it's just magical. You know, it's so cool to be able to pass on this kind of like ethic, work ethic and for them to see what's going on. You know, we shield them from a lot of things, but like for them to feel inspired, you know, that they want to have their own business someday already at this age is like so cool.

Ramon Vela (42:23.95)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (42:27.801)
I want them to feel confident. They can be bad ass women entrepreneurs, whatever they want to be.

Ramon Vela (42:31.662)
I love that. It actually, there's a brand called Free AF, I think. It's a non-alcoholic brand. And the founder of that company, she was a non-profit and out of New Zealand. And she actually created this like free lunch program. was a for-profit, but it was going back to...

help with school lunches and so forth. And she told me a story about how she walked in, she walked into her house and she can hear her kids arguing and she thought, what are they arguing about? And as she got up closer, she realized they were arguing about which kid was gonna take over the business from the parents. And she goes, that was so proud of moment that her...

Vicky Pasche (43:21.945)
Wow, I love it.

Ramon Vela (43:26.478)
She was doing something that her kids were actually like proud of and wanted to be a part of, right? And so it's kind of like a parent's, it's a parent's dream in some ways that your kid learns from you and takes these kinds of things from you, lessons.

Vicky Pasche (43:32.271)
Yeah, yeah.

Vicky Pasche (43:42.181)
They want to start Dapperboy Kids. That's their goal. They say, I'm going to start the kids line, mama. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (43:47.554)
Well, I mean, I think that's another market, right? I mean, that's another undercurrent market. So let's talk about the products. I want to make sure that people know what is this thing. I know we've been talking about it, but what is this thing that you care so much for, that you've sacrificed for and that you've learned so much this journey from? obviously, we know it's Clothingline, you've mentioned some of the products, but, you know, for those who,

Vicky Pasche (43:50.892)
Absolutely, yes.

Ramon Vela (44:15.16)
for those who want to go check out what we are talking about, can go to dapperboy.com, dapperboy.com, boy, spell B-O-I, .com. Walk us through the website. So, someone's listening to this. Hopefully, they've already heard of you and know of the brand and so forth. But let's just say somebody who's brand new, who loves this idea, who's thinking, wow, this is great, like this is something I've been looking for.

Where do they start in their journey? Like where do you want them to go? What do want them to look at? What products do you want them to be aware of?

Vicky Pasche (44:50.883)
Yeah, you know, I think our bread and butter products really are core products, our jeans and button up shirts and even t-shirt packs. Those are the core products. From there, everything else, it seems like if you're a new customer, those are the products that new customers find the most attractive because they're so different and people are looking for that fit. But then from there, it seems like, you know, they have the core product, they love the core product, and now they want to build their wardrobe. And that's how we've kind of designed it when it comes to our limited drops.

So like, for example, summer's coming up, we're gonna be dropping our short sleeve button up shirts, know, with the sunglasses slit by the pocket and, you know, people wait for that drop or the swimwear that we're gonna be coming out with. It's funny because I've realized that the Dapperboy product launch journey has gone with my own life journey. You know, starting with jeans, button up shirts, those are the products I wore in the men's department every day.

But then I wanted to be a little cooler. We launched those bomber jackets. I was always looking at trendy men's fashion. And so I was launching along that. But then once I started going up on stages, I wanted to launch suits. So we did that. We launched unstructured, comfortable suits that almost feel like sweats, very high end. And we launched suits and those go really well. And then now I was a former athlete my whole life.

And as a plus size person getting back into the gym can be very intimidating, especially as like this short haired masked lesbian coming to the gym, you know, like what are people thinking? And obviously they're not, they don't really care, you know, but it's, sometimes just built up in your head, but you know, my clothes should match. If I'm having this full dapper boy wardrobe of feeling good, but my gym clothes are sloppy cause I can't find a good fit. Now we're going to match that. We're going to be launching that actually in the next couple of months. And so I'm so excited because

Ramon Vela (46:27.362)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (46:45.881)
that confidence there, you in the gym is I'm trying to find my way also as a founder being balanced, you know, in life and finding my way back to health and like, you know, reminiscing on the glory days of my athletic life. know, Dapper Boy's really gone along my journey here and every product that we launch.

Ramon Vela (46:58.679)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (47:04.238)
Well, this is amazing. Like I love the, well, one is I mentioned earlier, I love the website because I just love the dancing and everything. It looks so cool and it so fun. But the clothing looks cool. I mean, it looks from the hoodies to the joggers to the jackets to the pants. They just look very stylish. Even the hats, I saw one there.

Vicky Pasche (47:16.357)
You

Ramon Vela (47:34.38)
Yeah, everything just looks really comfortable. looks cool. It looks fashionable. It looks not only just fashionable, but it also looks time. What is it? The timeless and yeah. And I love it. I, and I do notice that you were on shark tank. Was that how long ago was that?

Vicky Pasche (47:45.923)
timeless, yep.

Vicky Pasche (47:53.733)
Yeah, we were. So we aired in April of 2023. We filmed back in September of 2022. What a crazy experience. know, spoiler alert for anybody, but we didn't end up getting a deal. And I'll never regret that experience, like going for it and applying and being on the show because it got us so much exposure. You know, people like the stories we heard of people contacting us relating to, you know, the problem that we were solving.

Ramon Vela (48:22.062)
Mm-hmm.

Vicky Pasche (48:23.119)
but I still feel like the sharks didn't quite get it. They thought we were trying to create this third category that was so niche, you know? And it's crazy because the numbers we were producing, know, millions of dollars we've generated just bootstrapped where a lot of brands can't say they do that, you know, but they still couldn't see past us being this like lesbian owned brand, know, niche brand. So I can't wait, you know, it's a really exciting announcement.

that we announced last week is that even though the shark said no, we've been told countless amount of times from investors Nordstrom recently just said yes. And so we just announced last week that we are officially on Nordstrom.com and that they actually put us in both the men's and the women's section. And this is a big, big exciting deal.

Ramon Vela (49:14.851)
Wow.

and, yeah, I mean, it's kind of crazy. You would think, you think the sharks would have, I don't know. I don't know what the word I'm looking for.

Vicky Pasche (49:32.153)
the ability to see that, you know, like,

Ramon Vela (49:33.262)
Yeah, ability to see the opportunity there, you know, and it just seems weird. I don't know.

Vicky Pasche (49:41.637)
Well, I think, you know, they said that we made every mistake in the book because that day, which was crazy, because that was in middle of us selling our house. You know, we had to sell our house like within that week, I think, in order to make our rent for our rental. Like, so the stakes were high. then, you know, another piece of advice is never come from a place of desperation. You know, on that stage, on our episode, if anyone watched it or will watch it, we said to them, we had a hundred. They asked us how much is in our bank account and we had a hundred bucks left.

Ramon Vela (50:00.973)
Hmm.

Vicky Pasche (50:11.971)
That's how dire that situation was. And so we were walking into Nordstrom like so excited, know, like, we're definitely going to get a shark and having that mindset to be told no at the end of that and being completely devastated was really hard, you know, because, we had to wait a long time to find out if we were going to err or not, you know, so it was a blow to us, but that was all meant to happen that way.

because it was actually soon after we filmed that we got our very first lead investor, know, $250,000 investment from alternative wealth partners, names Kelly Ann Winschett, which changed our trajectory completely. And so that's where we started rolling into fundraising and it was actually happening at that point. So again, that was meant to happen, even though we were really bummed at that time that the shark said no.

Ramon Vela (51:02.146)
Yeah. And that's actually what you said about desperation. That's a hundred percent true. I've, in my past as a sales person, I realized that, you can't, you know, if you're desperate to close a sale or you're desperate because you're not making sales or whatever, it's really difficult. People can sense that, you know, the energy is not the same. And so it's difficult. It's difficult, especially if you're in that situation.

It's really hard. Um, and so I completely understand that. Um, but the, you know, on the other side of it, there's some really great companies that they turn down too, that, you know, you could feel good about because like, for instance, ring, which was eventually purchased from, uh, Amazon, they got passed on as well. Uh, which boggles my mind because I always thought like, oh, that's such a cool idea. mean, um, but you know, they didn't, they didn't buy on it either. So, you know, things happen for a reason. At least I like to think that.

Vicky Pasche (51:54.147)
Right.

Ramon Vela (52:01.766)
but this has been fantastic. I can talk to you forever. There's like a ton of stuff that we can, we can go through, but I want to be respectful every time. and I want to make sure that you tell, we tell people where they can go. The social media, the, you mentioned Nordstrom's, any other place that you want to mention. And then I want any last words that you want to talk about, but I will say that, that I really love,

Vicky Pasche (52:06.351)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (52:16.837)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (52:30.614)
I really love your energy. I really love this passion that you have, this ethos of the brand and how it exudes from you. And I can tell how, through your smile and through your energy, your voice, how much you believe in this, you not only just a mission, but you believe in the ethos and what's behind it.

the energy, the confidence, the strength and so forth. I can sense this coming through you. And I interview a lot of people and I fancy myself as someone who can read people fairly well, but I can feel it from you. And I just think that that's pretty cool. And I think you meet our tagline, which is products worth buying, brands we're supporting. And I really feel like, I think, you

Vicky Pasche (53:05.701)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (53:25.772)
This is a brand that I think people should really look at. So anyone out there, for what it's worth, I really feel like you should go to the website. So where can we buy it? Where can people go? Where do want them to go?

Vicky Pasche (53:37.207)
Yeah, well first off, thank you for allowing me to share this on your platform and for also allowing it to be so easy to communicate the story and share. So that really means a lot to me too. So yeah, finding us on our website, www.dapperboy.com. Again, that's with an I. We have a lot of fun on our Instagram, so you can find us at dapperboy on Instagram.

And also my wife, my wife and I started an Instagram called meet the Poshas. And that's real behind the brand kind of stuff. We're a little silly. You see some family things, but real behind the brand and you know how we're taking this thing all the way. So meet the Poshas and Poshas is spelled P-A-S-C-H-E. Yeah. And on TikTok dapper boy squad, but yes. And again, we just announced the Nordstrom drop.

Ramon Vela (54:08.984)
Hehe.

Ramon Vela (54:24.75)
Great.

Vicky Pasche (54:32.119)
And that's a huge milestone. You know, it's kind of funny because we look back when we were making our launch video back 10 years ago and my wife in the video said, our goal is to be in a mainstream store to have Nordstrom be that first one 10 years later is absolutely a dream come true. But we're just starting. This is a milestone, meaning we have to hit sales quotas.

You know through Nordstrom in order to get to that next level. We want to get in some flagship stores next We want to do a full rollout someday. And so it's gonna be really interesting, you know when we get into stores, where are they gonna put us in this store? I think there's gonna be some really interesting conversations to be had and I'm ready and excited for them. So yeah, thank you everybody for listening and following along the journey

Ramon Vela (54:56.866)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (55:09.068)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (55:19.682)
Wow. I love that. and you know, there's so many new categories in different, in different sectors that, you know, I don't know. I think I feel like the world is ready for a lot of new stuff. and so, yeah, I I'm interested in what that, where that, what that looks like too, from, know, from a store standpoint. but this is fantastic. And I know this is just the first of many and, and like, I want to support you in a way I can. so everyone out there, go to dapperboy.com. I'm telling you, even if it's just,

your you need a smile today go to the website because although is there is there music that goes on because i always have it on mute but

Vicky Pasche (55:56.997)
If you look at our Instagram, there's a video up, it's called the movement video. And actually, this is a funny story. We had a friend who was my barber and also dance choreographer. He made that dance for us and us dapper boy friends and models. had to learn this dance, you know, and it took us like four hours. It was ridiculous for like two, three, four steps. And then he had his professional dancers come in. You'll see them in the beginning and they learned this whole crazy dance in five minutes. So we're the divas of the.

Ramon Vela (56:15.618)
you

Ramon Vela (56:26.911)
Yeah.

Vicky Pasche (56:27.417)
group. But it's fun to watch. It's on our Instagram. It's the movement video. It's on YouTube also. And the music is awesome. And it's a great full video of that.

Ramon Vela (56:31.348)
that's fun, yeah.

Ramon Vela (56:36.43)
Yeah, because if you go to the website, it looks so much fun. I mean, I'm smiling, just looking at it, not even listening to what the music is, but it's a lot of fun. So definitely go and see that. But thank you so much for being on the show. I truly appreciate it. You are welcome back anytime. uh, and I am pleased, you know, when you guys reach other milestones, you know, uh, 12 months, 24 months, whatever you are, welcome back to come back and do a quick update and just let our listeners know what's going on. So thank you.

Vicky Pasche (56:41.731)
Hahaha

Vicky Pasche (57:04.741)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (57:05.728)
Everyone out there, have just had Vicky Pasha, is that correct? Pasha, Vicky Pasha, who is co-founder and CEO of Dapper Boy. And then boy is spelled B-O-I. So it's dapperboy, dapperboy.com. And then we're going to have the links to the website as well as the Instagram and TikTok and the other links that she mentioned on our podcast description, which you could find at Apple, Spotify and

Vicky Pasche (57:11.204)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (57:33.294)
pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts, simply type in the story of a brand show. Plus you can just go to the story of a brand.com and you can find everything there. We're relaunching our YouTube. So we have a lot of clips there, but we haven't put our episodes. So this episode would eventually go up there and you can see it in its entirety. See our faces and you don't have to just listen, but you can watch us if you want to. I hate watching myself on video, but anyhow, if you want to.

If you want to, you're more than welcome to do that. And then of course, you can find us in other social media channels. Beyond that, everyone stay safe, stay sane, stay healthy. And one last thing. We've been going through a lot of stuff lately, the pandemic and then the economy and geopolitical wars, then politics and everything that's going on in the country and the world today. And it can drive a lot of us crazy. so,

and stressed out and worried and everything else. So let's just do ourselves a favor and just remember that whatever it is, everyone is going through something. And if we can just be a little kinder to each other, we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.

Ramon Vela (58:52.878)
And we're done.